Warmboard opinions

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy Esposito on October 30, 2009 at 2:16pm

Paul,

Warmboard is a great product but it is expensive and takes a little more labor to install because of having to layout the sheets correctly. Radiant in Gypsum requires that the house is built to take the extra weight.

Have you looked at QuikTrak from Wirsbo? It's a panel that goes over the subfloor that is very easy to install. There are some other systems like it out there.

My main problem with warmboard is that the tubes have to be installed before interior walls go up. Because the tubes go in so early in construction you run the risk of someone puncturing a tube somewhere. When you use a over the floor system you don't put the tubes in till much later (just before finished flooring).

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul Gustafson on October 30, 2009 at 10:49pm

Thanks for the input Randy. I haven't investigated the product you mentioned, but I will. I figured that Warmboard was pretty expensive, but I have yet to get a good feel for how much a system with Warmboard differs than other systems.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul Gustafson on November 1, 2009 at 12:26am

I checked out QuikTrak. It seems that the difference from Warmboard with respect to its construction is that the aluminum is below the plywood rather than on top. I don't suppose that makes much difference. The main benefit I see in either product is that the heat is distributed better under the floor than with the Gypcrete system. I still haven't found any solid info on the cost of either product. If there's anyone out there who can enlighten me I'd appreicate it very much.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Will Jensen on June 18, 2010 at 7:36am

Check out this link to see some comparisons at the Radiant Panel Association:

Radiant Panel Association - floor systems compared

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Casey Kunselman on June 15, 2010 at 5:17pm

Randy, I know of many Warmboard jobs where tubing goes in after interior walls. Warmboard is happy to design either way. Even with tubing after walls, Warmboard needs 30 degrees less water temp compared to QuikTrak, and uses much less tubing. Also, because it is the subfloor, think of all the squeeks you have eliminated compared to hundreds of small, screwed-down panels. Many builders say labor costs are lower, when you look at the whole package.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Glenn V on November 1, 2009 at 1:05pm

I bought a magazine a while back, I think it was Mother Earth News,maybe a solar edition, that I believe is at my work, that someone layed out 1/2 or 5/8 plywood cut in strip lengths about 1' wide or so then nailed them down on the sub floor leaving gaps between them enough for the pex tubing to fit in and routered the plywood ends for the curve of the pex tubing to make their own.They bought sheet aluminum cut it in small sheets and layed them down on the plywood every so often formed down into the gaps between the plywood to fit the pex tubing to help in a more even heat transfer.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Joe on November 1, 2009 at 3:11pm

Paul,

Here is a good, detailed article from This Old House concerning hot water radiant floor heating. They give a list at the end of the article showing suppliers. Other articles cover electric radiant heating pads for bathroom floors.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,1548320,00.html

Joe, Sarasota

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James Goddard on November 2, 2009 at 3:01am

Here is a great site for DIY solar and alternate energy:
http://www.builditsolar.com/index.htm

In it, they have some very detailed plans and pictures of an actual in-floor heating unit (amongst a lot of other cool stuff). This one is powered by solar, but the heat source could be anything from gas to wood stove:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarShed/House.htm

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Patty Lovett on June 15, 2010 at 7:40pm

We used Gypcrete on our main level and installed the pex in our slab in the basement. For us the warmboard was cost prohibitive. Here in NW Montana our Gypcrete was $2600.00 for 1340 square feet.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Will Jensen on June 18, 2010 at 6:38am

Paul,

I have just been in contact (06/17/2010) with Warmboard. Their offices are in Aptos, CA - a suburb of Santa Cruz. Their plant is in Willets, CA.

We are planning a single-story 48' x 28' (1344 sq. ft.) home with a full basement, in Hornbrook, CA. This is a plain rectangle with only four outside corners - no bump-outs, push-ins or bay windows in the external wall/floor. The 'Comfort' half (3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms) will have 9' ceilings. The 'Public' half (Kitchen, Entry, Dining and Great rooms) will have a cathedral ceiling - 24' at the peak. We plan the insulation at R-49+ for ceilings, R-40+ for the 2"x6" walls and R-19+ for the main floor above the basement. The basement walls will use Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF) at R-19+. The basement floor will be fitted with radiant heat - though this Zone will be turned off most of the year since we plan little or no use for it.

We plan to use solar to heat the water and use an electric domestic water heater (DWH) for 'back-up'. We are considering using Warmboard as the decking for our radiant heat system.

I got two cost 'guess-timates' from Warmboard. Here's their direct comment - "1344sf, with 10% added for trim/waste, is about $11,600 delivered to the job including sales tax. Perhaps a better budgeting number is for the complete radiant hydronic system- expect on the order of $16-$19psf installed and ready to live there (including Warmboard panels). System components are 1) Warmboard panels, 2) Hydronic Mechanical system (including domestic water heating) and 3) Labor to put it all in. That range does not include the solar components or solar labor - all we sell is Warmboard panels, the rest would be by another vendor."

This included their design work and drawings (normally $0.40 per sq. ft.) for the Warmboard placement and piping to the manifold location. They have separate charges if we want them to plan the mechanical and electrical work (heating units, etc.).

The delivered price for the Warmboard panels and the design work for board and tubing placement is $11,600 ($ 8.60 per sq. ft.). If a complete system is installed as suggested (not including any solar) the price is $16-19 per sq. ft.

I think the sq. ft. cost can increase - perhaps dramatically - for floor plans with many corners in the exterior walls, alcoves, bump-outs, etc. The floor plan they use on the Warmboard website to illustrate their planning services is a good example of a high cost design.

QuikTrak does not seem to be a good alternative. With aluminum on the bottom you are 'wicking' the heat away from the floor you want to heat and at 30+% higher water temperature to boot. NOT cost effective in my opinion.

Warmboard decking is about 3 pounds per square foot. For our home that is roughly 5000 pounds of distributed weight for the floor joists to hold up - nearly the same as standard plywood decking. For Gypcrete floors our architects have quoted weights in the range from 20 to 30 pounds per sq. ft. depending upon the thickness. That would be up to 10 times the weight of Warmboard for our home. This would lead to costlier wooden trusses placed closer together.

A hidden concern is cost of repairs. Gypcrete might be seen as 'self-healing', but water has a way of finding its way out, while a repairer has to dig around to find the source. We will use a floating wood laminate floor throughout our home with separate zones for each room to isolate damages and reduce repair costs.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Will Jensen on June 24, 2010 at 12:21pm

I was mistaken on one thing in my comment. The issue of design fees. There are two types: design of the warmboard layout and design of the mechanical systems. The layout design is $400 - but this is waived if the buyer specifies Warmboard in the architectural drawings and follows through on the purchase. The $0.40 per sq. ft. charge I mentioned is for the mechanical design work.

▶ Reply to This